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 Create a new forum now guys.

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Brugges



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PostSubject: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:56 am

It's time to create a new forum. The one's in charge of this forum has not been active for over a year. There's mass issues between key players of the community and the people having control of the forum (lets be honest it's Shoop)

While we could argue that some people will always be unhappy and changing forums is pointless we have to look at the real picture. There has been a massive documented abuse on the forums in the past where people have had their threads edited or removed, obviously any interest to write real and interesting posts disappeared the moment that happened and nothing was done about it.

And again.. The administrators has not been active for over a year. And I bet mod activity is really low too.

Creating a new forum (like this one) takes a few minutes to set up and will bring a tremendous positive effect for the community. Once everyone can see that we have a serious forum-crew that takes care of the forum in a proper way a lot of key-players will return to the forum, the quality of posts and threads will skyrocket and subsequently the forum will be more attractive for everyone in our community.

Some people I would like to nominate to be main administrators of the new forum:

Celestial_One: Although I didn't read all of it, I got the impression of a rational and peaceful guy when I read his replies to the flame threads against him. Famously calm, independent and pragmatic.

Nomapgrid (As far as I remember he behaved well on the previous forum that he ran? And was very active. No issues there, might be easily persuaded by others)

I believe it's a good time to set this in motion now. Summer is starting, people will have more free-time and as always interest for ST activity and ST activity will increase.

Please do not turn this into a thread where we discuss the abuse of certain administrators since that has already been done in depth in several other threads. Rather use this thread to discuss possible candidates for the new forum and anything else related to this topic.
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ThisIsNotChakra



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:50 am

This is a great idea. Every day we get complaints that this post was deleted or that post was edited and this is no doubt decreasing forum activity, which entail destroys the community. It is time for some revolution!

I'd like to propose Chakra for admin. He might have past history of massive abuse, but I don't remember. Either way, no issues there.

Chakra has always been dedicated to Sheep Tag forums and regularly moderates the threads, weeding out unnecessary posts that simply derail the topic. Further, he is viewed favorably by nearly everyone in the relevant Sheep Tag community. He has the technical know how to combat the swarm of bots that spam these current forums and other issues.


It might be that everytime we switch forums the activity seems to become a third of what we had before, but that definitely won't happen here.

PS: You might not have ever heard of me before, but I promise I'm someone new who has zero interest invested in a switch of forum leadership.
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Brugges



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:09 pm

And as usual Chakra jumps in with a completely irrelevant bullshit post that doesn't add anything to the discussion. I'm curious Chakra what's your agenda with fighting my proposal to move forum? What was your agenda when you prevented serious people who wanted to edit the map to get access to it? Whats your agenda when you randomly ban people, edit posts and remove threads on Chatcraft? What's your agenda when you abuse your StH channel powers by kicking and banning people randomly?

You have no right to speak in topics like these, no right my friend. You're lucky you can hide behind the USEast braindead-crew aka Ecid and Riziy. But you'll get what's coming for you. Karma is a bitch.

The facts:

1: The acitivty on this forum are SHIT when you compare to other forums that existed.
2: The leadership are inactive, widely hated, and have abused their power making several people boycott the forum.
3: Putting Celestial_One or someone else in charge will make a lot of people who have problems with Shoop come back, these are important people who have played a major role in every single big forum so far (please dispute this Chakra)
5: The leadership are inactive, widely hated, and have abused their powers.
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ThisIsNotDrewisfat



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:48 pm

I SUPPORT THIS IDEA AND HERE IS MY REASONS WHY AND REBUTTS TO ARGUMENTS PEOPLE HAVE MAKE BEFORE

ARGUMENT #1: WHY DO WE NEED TO CHANGE FORUM? ONLY ONE POST WAS DELETED AND EVERYTHING WAS FINE BEFORE THE INCIDENT AND FOR 2 YEARS AFTER THE INCIDENT!

REBUT #1: SICK. ONE WRONG MODERATION ACROSS 3 YEARS IS MORE THAN 0 WRONG MODERATION ACROSS 3 YEAR. IF U STEAL ONE APPLE BUT DIDNT STEAL APPLE FOR REST OF LIFE, YOU DONT GO JAIL? DONT THINK SO

ARGUMENT #2:
Quote :
It might be that everytime we switch forums the activity seems to become a third of what we had before
-ThisIsNotChakra

REBUT #2: I DONT CARE ABOUT ACTIVITY AND WHAT DECISIONS ULTIMATELY LEAD TO BEST FORUM, I CARE ABOUT JUSTICE

ARGUMENT #3: THERE ARE NO OTHER CANDIDATES FOR LEADING A FORUM, CELESTIAL_ONE AND NOMAPGRID ARE INCOMPETENT, PERSUADABLE BY BAD ARGUMENTS AND THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN RUNNING A FORUM.

REBUT #3: SO WHAT MAYBE WE CAN PAY THEM MONEY TO WORK AGAINST THEIR WILL AND HOPE THAT THEY DONT ACT LIKE ANTISOCIAL VAMPIRES.

ARGUMENT #4: THERE ARE 1-2 PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO POST BECAUSE OF LEADERSHIP ON THIS FORUM WHILE REST OF SHEEPTAG PLAYERS DONT HAVE THE PSYCHOPATHIC TENDENCIES OF BOYCOTTING BECAUSE OF 1 ADMITTABLE MISTAKE IN LIGHT OF EVERYTHING GOOD THE LEADER HAS DONE. THEIR PSYCHIPATHIC TENDENCIES ARE HIGHLY LIKELY TO RESULT IN A BOYCOTT ON HYPOTHETICAL NEW FORUM, JUST LIKE PSYCHOPATHIC TENDENCIES BOYCOTTED 12 OTHER FORUM

REBUT #4: ITS NOT PSYCHPATH ITS LOGIC I DONT LIKE WHEN PPL DO A MISTAKE LOL

ARGUMENT #5: THE COMMUNITY DOESNT SUPPORT OR AGREE WITH THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE 1, MAYBE 2, PEOPLE THAT BOYCOTT AS DEMONSTRATED BY NOONE GIVING A SHIT ABOUT THE 1 MISTAKE LEADERS DID IN THE PAST AND AS DEMONSTRATED BY NOONE CHANGING FORUM WHEN ATTEMPTS AT NEW FORUMS HAS BEEN MAKE 3 TIMES SINCE THE ''ABUSE INCIDENT''.

REBUT #5: SO WHAT IF COMMUNITY DOESNT SHARE THE PERSPECTIVE OUR BEST MOVE IS TO WORK AGAINST WHAT EVERYONE WANTS IN ORDER TO PLEASE 1 PSYCHOPATH WHO ARE MAD AND BOYCOTTING LIKE FUCK
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Chakra



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:06 pm

I denied access to the map because it was not mine to grant permissions to: it was Gosu's. I was granted permission to give it to someone who I felt confident was capable of maintaining the map. No one stepped up the plate. I had always been in favor of open maps free for anyone to edit. You can check maps I've done on my own, such as Fixus or Bulldog, for proof of this.

I have long learned that the way some individuals look at events are that they are tainted by deep conspiracy. I have zero allies among the administrators or moderators of this forum and yet have never felt abused. Indeed, chances are those that do feel abused are simply those that post things outside the standard community accepts. Those of weak minds--that is, those who accept another may be abusive without any concrete evidence of such--might argue this forum has been abusive, but other than that, it is only those who are constantly causing problems and proclaiming abuse.

Your "so called" facts:
1. The activity is of course going to be shit compared to previous forums. First, it is simple fact that the community has been in ever decline. Expecting incline is ridiculous. Second, the map is as far removed from a forum-community as has ever been. Even when the map stopped development, there were still arguments over the map itself. Now, however, no one expects any mapmaker to read and possibly implement their ideas. Further, the great theorycraft debates have all been concluded so far as they can be. The map hasn't seen major changes since 2008, and as such, the debates have become boring and re-hashed. Another stack debate would simply follow the previous strains of debate, except those arguing would be the likes of Spoofy and CMK rather Sidey, Amir, Drew, Shoop, etc.
Equating forum activity to moderations is silly. Those that boycott do so because they see the map and community as fallen or for self interest.
2. There is very little need for "active" admins and moderators. Those that we have surely check the forums somewhat frequently, as I do see moderation being done for obviously bad threads/post. Admins and mods don't need to be contributors.
3. IDC who's in charge. It won't change anything. Those who are boycotting seem to be the ones who are always boycotting, no matter who's in charge.

My reasons for not supporting a forum change are the reasons I've always used: it doesn't solve anything and it further reduces activity.
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CHIEFHERO[SKS]

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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:29 pm

The irony when people responsible for old forums being replaced by newer ones use an argument like "this forum is shit compared to the older ones"...and then propose the solution of rolling the dice just ONE MORE TIME Very Happy one last diceroll, maybe we'll hit jackpot this time around.



anyway, perhaps the best solution is somewhere inbetween. keep this forum, but remove shoops ability to moderate? maybe this option is in the toilet now though, since noone knows where the fuck rune is.

i'll go either way. getting a new forum might work out, but forget about horsebrains like nomapgrid in charge of the show. chaise is a real candidate. cele => risky move, but one of the better alternatives. i wouldn't mind sticking to this forum either. shoop is a CHANGED MANS! after 5 months in moral philosophy => i think emanuell kant drove the evil forces out of him.
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Spoofy

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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:21 pm

ThisIsNotDrewisfat, SICK POST. SOME SICK MOCKERY, HOLY SHIT! NICE

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Runey



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:16 pm

CHIEFHERO[SKS] wrote:
since noone knows where the fuck rune is.
I am just stalking you guys once in a while.
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Nmcdo

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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Tue Jun 11, 2013 11:58 pm

Runey has been here the whole time?  ROFL. / ?????
ComeS bacKS and plAyS.
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CHIEFHERO[SKS]

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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:01 am

Rune wrote:
I am just stalking you guys once in a while.



HOHohoho ^^ nice update with the forums, if this is your work. you can also put shoop on non-mod duty, it was never intended or planned for him to moderate posts so i dont see why he needs the ability. maybe good idea to kill nightmare(and enstek?)'s modden, get fresh blood on the job.

be active man, we need some nice kids around, trollpro and his gang of hawkeys, laauch, azzuro and cascading have TAKEN OVER BNET Neutral
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Brugges



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:27 am

Drew's post is a big joke made by someone who appears to be a handicapped monkey perhaps? Looks like that. I'll reply to what I assume is your opinion

"REBUT #1: SICK. ONE WRONG MODERATION ACROSS 3 YEARS IS MORE THAN 0 WRONG MODERATION ACROSS 3 YEAR. IF U STEAL ONE APPLE BUT DIDNT STEAL APPLE FOR REST OF LIFE, YOU DONT GO JAIL? DONT THINK SO"

Shoop has abused more than 1 time on the forum. Not only that, he has abused a lot of times on previous forums, with previous hostbots and in previous clans. He is widely disliked because of these actions which is one big reason why people have been against this forum off the bat and especially now after he has done it again.

"ARGUMENT #3: THERE ARE NO OTHER CANDIDATES FOR LEADING A FORUM, CELESTIAL_ONE AND NOMAPGRID ARE INCOMPETENT, PERSUADABLE BY BAD ARGUMENTS AND THEY HAVE NO INTEREST IN RUNNING A FORUM. "

Yeah, the only one suitable for running a forum is the arguably most famous abuser of all time? The one with the biggest amount of hatred towards him. It doesn't matter that he abused his power several times on this and other forums and that he hasn't written anything for 6 months, he is not incompetent - Celestial_One is.

"ARGUMENT #4: THERE ARE 1-2 PEOPLE WHO REFUSE TO POST BECAUSE OF LEADERSHIP ON THIS FORUM WHILE REST OF SHEEPTAG PLAYERS DONT HAVE THE PSYCHOPATHIC TENDENCIES OF BOYCOTTING BECAUSE OF 1 ADMITTABLE MISTAKE IN LIGHT OF EVERYTHING GOOD THE LEADER HAS DONE. THEIR PSYCHIPATHIC TENDENCIES ARE HIGHLY LIKELY TO RESULT IN A BOYCOTT ON HYPOTHETICAL NEW FORUM, JUST LIKE PSYCHOPATHIC TENDENCIES BOYCOTTED 12 OTHER FORUM"

What good has the leader done? Abused several times and added a section or two in a forum that takes 2 minutes to make (and Runey made)

"ARGUMENT #5: THE COMMUNITY DOESNT SUPPORT OR AGREE WITH THE PERSPECTIVE OF THE 1, MAYBE 2, PEOPLE THAT BOYCOTT AS DEMONSTRATED BY NOONE GIVING A SHIT ABOUT THE 1 MISTAKE LEADERS DID IN THE PAST AND AS DEMONSTRATED BY NOONE CHANGING FORUM WHEN ATTEMPTS AT NEW FORUMS HAS BEEN MAKE 3 TIMES SINCE THE ''ABUSE INCIDENT''.

If NOONE agrees with the perspective then why IS NOONE that USED TO POST ON THE FORUM POSTING? Sidey, Chaise, Exalius, Beeeh, Twix-Club, Nightmare other people like Chiefhero (who post 1 liners then and then but used to post A4's before) even Shoop himself to mention a few Europeans.

You think we need to play ST to have a active forum? Well we dont, we've had several successful active forums outside of ST activity just like we have a successful and fun realm and clans. The reason these people don't post is because half of them boycotts the forum because of what Shoop has done and because of the inactive leadership and poor post quality, the reason the other half doesn't post is because of the first half not posting.

As for Chakra:

1: As I mentioned already, we can definitely have a successful forum even without the majority playing ST or being interested in it. There has been countless other big interesting debates on other forums, and other forums have enjoyed tremendous activity from a lot of people who quit playing ST.

2: All we need is a administrator that is active and not widely hated by the entire community. Many choices Smile I never said we need a super active moderation although we need some of it.

3: If you don't care then STFU

I don't care if we move forum or just transfer leadership (if its possible) I haven't heard one single good argument for why someone who is widely hated and has been inactive for 1 year should be admin.

Keep in mind; I'm not Sidey, we all know Sidey got a really low threshold to boycott anything. I'm not Sidey, I have not boycotted a single forum in the past but im boycotting this one because of reasons I've stated above. A lot of people who have been active on every single forum since I arrived to this community are not posting either. The quality of posts are too low, people are angry with Shoop about what he did, the ones making funny threads people like to read are not active.

alternatives

1: Don't do shit, continue having inactive leadership that's hated. REFUSE to change anything because that's what Sidey wants and its fun if Sidey don't get what he wants. Also Shoop did some good, he edited the name of a section 1 year ago.

But subsequently I and others like me (most already have) will stop trying to fix this situation. Once every 2nd week Fr[o]st will make a thread about leaving community and Chakra will reply "lolz" meanwhile we will have increased activity in the Sheep Tag Facebook group (which has 500% more activity than this forum)

2: Change the administrators who hasn't been active for a year and replace mods that don't do anything. While Sidey might not return, others will. Instead of having mass activity in a facebook group for selected people we will all gather in a compromise that most of us (maybe not Sidey) can live with. The quality of posts and threads will go up and the forum will become more interesting.

3: Continue to write idiotic handicapped posts that doesn't add anything to the discussion (you go girl!)

Ps: I love how you didn't deny anything I said Chakra. You go girl!
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CHIEFHERO[SKS]

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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 10:49 am

bragges wrote:
Keep in mind; I'm not Sidey, we all know Sidey got a really low threshold to boycott anything.
Well this is clear since you come across as a retard with decent grammar in that last post. it would be better to tell people who you are instead of playing the "ill eliminate 1 name per day xD" game. are you 12 years old or what.


bragges wrote:
If NOONE agrees with the perspective then why IS NOONE that USED TO POST ON THE FORUM POSTING? Sidey, Chaise, Exalius, Beeeh, Twix-Club, Nightmare other people like Chiefhero (who post 1 liners then and then but used to post A4's before) even Shoop himself to mention a few Europeans.
they dont post because the activity is low... your point is a non sequitur. you have to show that these guys will start posting again SIMPLY by the removal of shoop from power. i think some will start posting if activity is high, regardless of whether shoop is in power or not, and some of them won't post irrelevant of whether activity is low or high, and whether shoop is in charge or not. there are ONLY 1, at most 2, who don't post directly because of shoop.

you still didn't answer drews quote though, which is the funny part. if the community at large (especially if the key players - like you suggest) hold the view that you attribute to them (not posting because of shoop), what would be the explenation for the several failed forums made after shoops abuse, in particular the forums supported and advertised for by these key-players? what do you think is a sensible conclusion, if not that people don't give a shit/agree with your position?




its embarresing to read these attemts at making knock down arguments that just fire straight back, especially when it's so EASY to argue for demoting shoop. the majority of the post was just a swing and a miss^^. that being said, i agree that shoop has abused before, so i got no problem with removing him from powers, especially since he was never supposed to have moderation-abilities to begin with. => everyone is happy Yeee!

PS! keep posting chakra ^^ your post are good.
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Brugges



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:15 am

I'll try make it simple for your peanut brain with shit grammar Chiefhero. The 1-2-3 people you speak of are the one's who have been 3 out of maybe 6 major contributors on previous forums.

I agree that most people will post as soon as there is activity. But the question is, why isn't there activity on this forum when we enjoyed activity on every other forum so far? When we enjoyed activity on this forum for MONTHS after it was made? I claim it's because the major players (who historically has made the interesting threads and posts that has gotten good response) is not posting because of what Shoop has done.

Since no forum has been made and endorsed for longer than 7 hours (no idea what other forums you speak of here..) i'll just take the Sheep Tag Facebook group as an example. The group enjoys heavy activity from these "only 1-2 people" you talk of and is MUCH more active than this forum is or has been for the past year if not longer, it has a variety of people posting and has a shitload of material (compared to this forum).

A: 50% (1-2-3 people like you say) of forum contributors stop posting.
B: There is nothing fun to read anymore, people resort to spamming.
C: The forum is filled with spam, anyone putting thought and effort into a thread gets shut down with "lol" replies.
D: Incentives to posting are gone, spamming continues, the forum basically dies.
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CHIEFHERO[SKS]

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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:07 pm

we'd be in the exact same position if the ''key-players'' had boicotted this forum because they didn't like the blue coloured theme of the forum. remember that. it would result in the same lack of posters, some lack of activity.

they might as well have tried to argue that chaise, nightmare and twix don't post here because the theme of the forum is blue as opposed to orange in that case. its a logical leap despite the distant causal relationship. people don't post because there is low activity, end of story. and there are a shitload of factors that contribute to the lack of activity. you can't logically put the fault on shoop for all inactivity, ESPECIALLY if you can't document that we'd have more activity if shoop didn't delete the nazi post 2 years ago Very Happy you're basically a rat in a maze, looking for a way to get out by trying all approaches and angles.




the 1-2-3 key posters made their own forum some months ago. They posted threads and advertised for it. They stole this forums name and used it to promote their own forum. it died in 3 days. so much for empirical evidence that the self-asserted "top contributors" really are considered top contributors Very Happy and the facebook page is a bunch of one-liners. activity doesn't matter if net-contribution is 0.
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Brugges



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 12:56 pm

Am I supposed to reply to the first part or is it a joke? That is really some fucked up reasoning. But yeah, if the important players of anything boycotts the enterprise, team, league or whatever for some reason then you have a serious issue that needs to be resolved if you wish the enterprise/team/league to continue working. Either by satisfying the wishes of the rational masses or the wishes of the conservative few. In this particular case people boycott because of Shoop.

There has not been a single forum made after this, there was a joke attempt made by two people that were endorsed for 6 hours and later abandoned. It's not worth mentioning. Sadly we have not had a serious attempt made with a reasonable guy in charge but if and when we have it in the near or distant future it's certainly gonna be more active than this forum.

The fact that the Facebook group enjoys tremendous activity so far (FAR from one liners, rather elaborate and thought out pictures, comments, epic video battles etc which has been valued highly and regarded as top material by many) while this forum is dead like shit with 2 posts a week by Chakra writing "lolz" proves my point that this forum SUCCEEDS or FALLS with the "1-2-3 people" as you put it, who really are more like 50% of the major contributors.

There's like you say a shitload of different reasons for low activity, but do you honestly deny that the ongoing boycott isnt one of the bigger ones? We all know your standpoint now though, you prefer to have administrators who hasn't been active for over a year and has a history of abuse and other shit above "1-2 posters" Smile:)
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:14 pm

the boycott is a valid problem, and shoop should get removed from the power to edit/delete posts, i've conceded this years ago already. this is based on principles, not some dream of a tremendous increase in activity.



do you honestly deny that these 1-2-3 posters boycott any forum for any reason; they're just looking for any flaw? you can make a satisfying story for why certain forums were boycotted, but these posters lose all credibility when they boycott forums like the whisforum which was abuse-free.

you can add to that the fact that there is a general trend where creating new forums ALWAYS leads to worse activity than the former forum (small initial spike in activity/contribution). a loss in activity which isn't accounted for purely by the overall decay of our community over time.

if this is true (inevitable boycott from same 'key-posters' + major loss in activity every new forum), why does  it matter that they boycott, even if the reasons are valid this particular time and EVEN IF they are major contributors? is there any reason to cater to their needs (we know it wont lead to more activity long-term) apart from moral reasons?



it adds reasons to ignore their boycott when we've seen them attemt to create their own forums that the community wasn't interested in following..several times through history. peope simply dont value them as much as they make it seem. but sure, remove shoops power for other reason, these posters coming back is just added benefits.
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:28 pm

Most of what you just said are true and I agree with most of your reasoning this time.

BUT, are you ready to acknowledge that the ongoing boycott might be wider this time than what we usually experience? It might be more people than the boycott-every-forum gang. People that didn't boycott forums before MIGHT be boycotting it now because of what went down with Shoop or something else that you could consider a valid and rational reason.

If we agree this is a possibility, and if we agree it's a medium to high probability that it is true. Doesn't my suggestions make sense? Is it not enough for this to be true in ONE SINGLE case for it to make sense to remove Shoop from administrator immediately?

If Shoop was active, cared about admin position, actively contributed to the forum etc I guess you could debate it, but in my opinion there is no debate in this current situation. Not in our small dying community, with very few active posters.

If we can get ONE SINGLE poster back (except for the one's always boycotting) by demoting Shoop then shouldn't we do it Chiefhero? Shouldn't we cater to that one single poster who was rubbed the wrong way to get him back? Considering what has happened, considering the circumstances. Keep in mind I'm not arguing to change forums right now, just to get rid of Shoop and start to clean up the mess.

I hope you consider this reasoning valid aswell.
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 1:44 pm

no i dont agree that there are more people that boycott because of shoop than the usuall nutjob "boycott every forum" group.

there are a few people (beeeh included) who pretend to boycott simply because it furthers their agenda (they are against shoop). but their contribution to the forum is decided by entirely different factors - forum activity level/their involvement in the community being the biggest. in other words; they could be posting with shoop in power, given that other factors add up. this applies to everyone who boycotts apart from 1 person, despite what impression they give off.



this is the whole point. nothing you've said has (or should) influence people's opinion about this forum, or about shoop. The notion of removing shoops powers is based entirely on previous events and moral principles, and has ZERO relations to getting any ''top-posters'' back, or some dream of increased activity. 



Remember, this tactic braggers use can be used to enforce anything. "make the forum orange or we're gonna boycott" -> making the forum orange gets posters back. "edit drews avatar or we boycott" -> doing it will get posters.
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:13 pm

I didn't ask if you agree there ARE more people, I asked if you acknowledge the medium to high POSSIBILITY of there being other people boycotting. If you don't then you're seriously myopic.

I honestly doesn't see how "pretending to boycott" this forum will serve any agenda against Shoop. That would really just ruin for oneself assuming that the one boycotting previously enjoyed using the forum. Especially at this point in time where Shoop is not active on this forum or on bnet.

And even if the reason people boycott the forum is because of some other mysterious agenda against Shoop so what? If a bunch of people boycott the forum because of other real issues with Shoop's behavior then that is not less of a valid reason in my eyes to remove Shoop from power. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many over the good of a few. And a person with a lot of grudge directed towards him should not have a power position in the first place rather it should be a somewhat neutral party.

Yeah he should be removed on moral grounds and for past events in my and yours opinion. But you assume everyone has the same moral values as you and I have. Assuming people have different moral values and assuming people didn't disagree with his actions. My reasons can be just as valid to get rid of Shoop (obviously).
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:47 pm

brigger wrote:
I didn't ask if you agree there ARE more people, I asked if you acknowledge the medium to high POSSIBILITY of there being other people boycotting. If you don't then you're seriously myopic.
do you acknowledge the high possibility that some ppl might boycott if we demote shoop? or the POSSIBILITY that people stop posting if these key-posters come back? what kind of MANIAC questions are these.

brigger wrote:
And even if the reason people boycott the forum is because of some other mysterious agenda against Shoop so what? If a bunch of people boycott the forum because of other real issues with Shoop's behavior then that is not less of a valid reason in my eyes to remove Shoop from power. Sometimes you have to consider the good of the many over the good of a few. And a person with a lot of grudge directed towards him should not have a power position in the first place rather it should be a somewhat neutral party.
the difference lies between the means and the reason. what you want done might be good, but you might be wanting it for the wrong reasons. Wanting shoop demoted because of hatred towards his standpoint on religion, for instance, is a bad reason. so the people that want shoop demoted because of irrelevant characteristics are - and should be - ignored...which applies to most of these boycott squad boys.


what they think => irrelevant to the evaluation of shoops ability to do his job. how can you even suggest that the best person suited for the job is the one with least hatred towards him? completely insane.

brigger wrote:
Yeah he should be removed on moral grounds and for past events in my and yours opinion. But you assume everyone has the same moral values as you and I have. Assuming people have different moral values and assuming people didn't disagree with his actions. My reasons can be just as valid to get rid of Shoop (obviously).
your reasons are not valid, as explained in my previous posts. what if shoop boycotts if he gets demoted? making decisions based on these ridiculous threats of boycott and promises of increased activity has never worked and always lead straight down the toilet. 

thread conclusion: trying to generate activity is good. Catering to threads of boycott (which lead to a loss in activity) is insane and can justify doing anything. my (and this communities) response to your proposal: no. we're not going to demote shoop to get some posters back, just like we're not going to make this forum orange to get some lunatics back. we're not going to change forums either. we might remove shoops powers for other reasons though. Over and out.
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Brugges



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:18 pm

I don't understand why Chiefhero claim to speak for the entire community, last I heard he still put garlic on the quran and licked it dry while singing "we shall overcome"


Orly its not good if people want Shoop demoted because he eat cookies? Thanks for the brilliant insight Chiefhero. But again, why do you claim to know why people boycott the forum? You constantly claim to know what's going on inside peoples minds, but based on what you said you dont have a FUCKING CLUE on why I or someone else is boycotting the forum, but Shoop's wide abuse on this forum plays a big role in it. If someone else has a different problem with Shoop it is most likely abuse he committed on some other forum in the past.

In the end; it all boils down to the abuse he has done, and the fact that people simply won't trust him again in a power position.
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CHIEFHERO[SKS]

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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:42 pm

personal attacks is fun and all, but you haven't shown any of my reasoning to be invalid. 

and you're the one who asked why the REASON for the grudge matters, and then you act as if it's obvious that it matters after i gave a baby explenation for you to understand. LOL.

in other words, you're a moron. you dont have the intellectual capasity to engage in debate with me.




you're also claiming to know why people don't post by plugging shoop into the unverifiable gap. 

your claims are based on what people say to you (i've established that people benefit from twisting the truth in this case), while my claims are based on the actions of the individuals. If the person stopped posting before the 'abuse', or if he has made posts after the 'abuse', something might indicate that there are greater factors at play.

cya bruski Smile
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Brugges



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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:51 pm

CHIEFHERO[SKS] wrote:
personal attacks is fun and all, but you haven't shown any of my reasoning to be invalid. 
and you're the one who asked why the REASON for the grudge matters, and then you act as if it's obvious that it matters after i gave a baby explenation for you to understand. LOL.
in other words, you're a moron. you dont have the intellectual capasity to engage in debate with me.
you're also claiming to know why people don't post by plugging shoop into the unverifiable gap. 
your claims are based on what people say to you (i've established that people benefit from twisting the truth in this case), while my claims are based on the actions of the individuals. If the person stopped posting before the 'abuse', or if he has made posts after the 'abuse', something might indicate that there are greater factors at play.
cya bruski Smile

What I said though, was why would the reason matter if it was a real issue? and with real issue I obviously meant issues people had with Shoop over past and current forum abuse. Otherwise I would just have said issues no? Maybe I expressed myself unclearly but that was the intention atleast, since that's whats relevant in this case imo.

I'm a moron but you cannot spell capacity? Lol.

Since you know so much about what people think and why they do things, could you please enlighten us with your analysis of someone who quit posting? Take Sidey for example. I'm under the impression that he stopped posting the moment Shoop started to abuse, but according to you?

lol
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:03 pm

and you're right. he quit because of abuse. 


not that it matters. my previous posts are sufficient whether 5 people quit because of abuse or zero. the main point is that we're not going to demote shoop/change forum to avoid boycotting, nor because you think it will increase activity. your reasoning is pretty flawed.


we might demote shoop/remove his ability to moderate for other reasons though. i've had my fun here, i'll let chakra and trollpro continue the debate in my stand Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:44 pm

I'm huge flattered that you would consider me in the running for head admin or moderator. I will not, however, be making a new forum. I think that defeats the purpose of increasing activity as there are people who will think that it's too much of a fuss to make a new account or what-have-you.

In all: I think shoop should also be demoted on the sole premise of inactivity. The fact that he hasn't even responded to this kind of further proves that. We need someone who will actively check the forums. I don't think shoop has done a bad job as admin, on the contrary since these new forums were made I thought he did a pretty good job with the exception of one questionable deleted post. When these forums were active he did a decent job in promoting unbiased mods who tried not to abuse.

I actively play sheep tag, and while I "may be a risky candidate" I also think I'm the only candidate lol.

Runey you claim to be here, but I see "UNLOCKED blablabla" advertisements (and they're still there!). You aren't really active, or if you are and if it's not your job to moderate, then please promote me to head admin and I will do my job finding the best mods I can, and if I have the ability to moderate myself, then I will also help in cleaning up these forums. If you aren't interested in promoting me to head admin for whatever reason I would still gladly accept a moderating position.

I think exa also brings to light at least a couple points. Regardless of people's squabbles with shoop people would come back. If shoop boycotts forums for neglecting his own duties then that's his own perogative.

Honestly I would like nothing more than seeing this forum flourish as it once did. If promoting me brings back some bad posters who will end up boycotting anyways, then so be it. At least we'll have a slight boost in activity.
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PostSubject: Re: Create a new forum now guys.   

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Create a new forum now guys.
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