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 Rating System 3D

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e8lakes

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PostSubject: Rating System 3D   Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:30 am

At the moment the tier-ranking seems to be the most accurate rating-system we have. Also the idea of giving roles such as captain/runtagger/allrounder/speedmasser(cornermasser) have not been criticised. I think that everyone has a certain tier in each role.

Why don't we make a 3-dimensional rating-system?

The three dimensions would be: Tier, Role, Percent. Wheres Tier and Role are plain to understand, percent rates how much of a certain role that player is used to (f.e. "A" is (t1, captain, 80%), but also (t2, allrounder, 10%) and (t3, speedmasser, 10%) and (t2, runtagger, 0%)). The tier gives a hint of how good the player can do in something. The role states what the "something" is that the player is good or bad at. The percent shows how often that player usually behaves, that means what role that player usually tries to conduct.

I think rating a person like that is pretty timesaving considering how much information it covers if you clarify the roles.

This rating system also wouldn't just be useful to boost egos, but also to create and play teambased tactics more often.
For example a team consisting out of 1 captain, 2 allrounders and 2 runtaggers would run a totally different tactic than a team consisting out of 1 captain, 2 allrounders and 2 speedmassers.
The first team probably plays more risky: distracting the onehit more, risking isolations more etc.
whereas the second team would care more for not anyone getting isolated, focus the corners more and being more aware of double-saves. A team with 5 captains probably would fail due to massive yelling unless 4 of those (tier x, captain, 70-100%) play an other role they are not used to that much.

I think we can also explain the picking order with this and make picking-order classes:

Class C: People usually first picked: Captain (unless the teamcaptain isn't a captain-player anyway)
CLASS A/S: People then picked: Allrounders/Speedmassers
CLASS R: People usually last picked: Runtaggers/newbegginers

I'm not saying that runtaggers are noobs or that captains are better than allrounders. What I'm saying is that most sheeptaggers only know few tactics and those usually need 1 captain, 1-2 allrounders and 1-2 speedmassers.

People like chaise, exa, drew, grim, traxx, zoo, master, night, etc. offer a quite good tier in either captain/allrounder/speedmasser or any combination of that and get picked early, because it fits most tactics.

With that new rating system we could be more clear about who is best in what:
1. whos best (tier-ranking) captain/allrounder/speedmasser/runtagger/new beginners/other roles you can think of (role ranking)
1. (or completely different roles)
2. who's used to that role the most, that means who's in shape in that role (0% in each role means the player is inactive, else all percentages taken together need to make 100% relative to the activity of the player being rated, habituation ranking)

P.S. We could not only rank who is best in what, we could also start to let make captains tactics and then make them pick what they need in order to get the tactic done (since in a versus a captain can pick away players before the other captain can pick them the picking also gets a competetive game played by the captains before the game even really started (like in DoTA), since picking away roles can destroy tactics the other captain likes best)
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e8lakes

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:31 am

here's an example of such ratings:
They probably aren't fitting a lot, but should show how the system works:




Greets - e8lakes!
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e8lakes

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:31 am

Hey there, thanks for all the positive feedback about the system here and on BNet.

I hope people will be able to read through how the system works, but I have little doubt that with examples and knowing the tier- and role-model people will have big problems with understanding this. Maybe the %-thing will take some time, hope you all read how it works Smile


I thought we should specify roles.
Here is some ideas:

leader (former captain) - these guys do what their name says: lead. Without a proper leader a team sort of is blind. The leader allways knows where his team is and what they are doing. If the leader finds one of his teammates doing nonsense he gives them instructions where to go (and maybe why) and what to do there. The leader sends pings to give directions to what zone the team should try to take action. A blind team probably gets cornered all the time and doesn't expand much together.

supporter (former allrounder) - the supporter is one of the most important actors in the sheep team. As supporter you are not much different than a captain, just that you don't give instructions. You allways have a look on your team, but whereas the captain tries to conduct the players of the team to certain zones, the supporter tries to hold the team together. Basically all you have to do is filling up the mass where your allies will need some farms to not get isolated in a few dozen seconds. The supporter needs to read the game and be where the team needs him - in the mass, keeping everyone connected to the mass. Supporters often are good double-savers, too.

expander (former speedmasser) - expanders are the substance of every team, without enough farms you will sooner or later suffer to zoning of wolves unless you don't have insane luck or insane good isolation-escapers. However, as expander you allways try to expand the mass. You might get off the zone your team is acting at the moment, but you allways try to build farms towards either a large free region or a new connection of your old mass. You are the only ones who don't have to look at the minimap all the time. Noone can mass as fast as you can and noone has the time to do it like you have. Leaders give you direction, supporters give you cover, in the end you are the one having the base and if you die your team is in real trouble. Expanders often have the opportunity to build a bank at regions that aren't too central, expanders with good gold-management are allways nice to have.

heattaker (former runtaggers) - as heattaker you're having a life full of action, adrenaline and way too often: insane luck - atleast that's what the others say. You know that you can escape insane situations more easy than all the other boring dudes talking about uninteresting stuff like team-zZZzZZz. Well, heattakers often aren't picked early, since the teamplaying-style is the way to win a game. Still, a heattaker who can control his own heat can have a lot of value to a team. Getting yourself isolated and then escaping might help out in some sitations, but takes a lot of attention from your supporters that often don't have that great skill to survive in heated situations. Better don't bring them into big pressure of not needed. What allways helps out is the heattaker distracting wolves that try to cut lanes like no supporter would ever dare to do. Heattakes are allways time-buyers: they can solo wolves for a certain time and have a chance to escape and return to the team, they can delay wolves in cutting and they can runtag. Heattakers are allways risky to pick, but in a really good team they buy the extra time you need to win over an other really good team.
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CHIEFHERO[SKS]

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:16 pm

add a template without player names and without numbers(%), so that people can easily make their own rankings using your system. possibly add a few extra lanes/bars on the horizon so that people can add their own roles if they wish. then ofc you have the whole side of wolfing which isn't addressed. so add a few extra bars for that as well, if people wanna rank wolfing (cutter, camper, sniper, blabla).


cool system. thumbs up for the good work.
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e8lakes

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:24 am

Jens showed me a cool online-tool we can use for this.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApNf-A89XgRVdEhQWTd4YVlCMzV0RDRVZ3BEcnVJNGc


Everyone (up to 50 people) can look at this page, only I can edit. I can easily allow people to have rights for editing it.
You can also download that file as PDF or Excel to show/edit your own ratings Smile

If you want to rate someone, you have three easy options:

1) I trust you and give you rights. (Because changning data is VERY easy with these rights)
2) You give me your ratings like: "<Player Name>: (tier, role, %), (tier, role, %), ..., (tier, role, %)
3) You visit the page. Download the table as Excel-File and post the picture (I update then)

One last thing: Should I also post an author for each rating or do we discuss ratings here in public?


Last edited by Runey on Sun Jan 22, 2012 9:40 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Fixed the link)
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e8lakes

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:46 am

I specify some more roles here:

One-Hitter - Your team pools you. You have the expensive equipment and most power. As a good one-hitter you have to combine some skills of other roles and have further skills. Those skills of other roles are that you can analyse the game like a cutter, just faster, you can have a look at both your own wolf and the sheep you try to zone like a camper has to take attention on the wisp and sheep around middle. Your extra skills are that you can put pressure on single sheep by following them like no other wolf can.
These skills given a one-hitter can choose between two different modes. Those are either picking to act like a strong cutter, which is especially required if your cutters don't manage to zone sheep on the map, the other mode is somewhat more brute: you put pressure on a zone your cutters keep up and thus get kills a lot faster which lowers chance of the sheep team to bridge the sheep in danger.

Cutter - A coordinated pride of cutters are the bottom line of the very idea of wolfing. You are the ones that get isolations. As cutter you try to analyse the game in a way that you find out where the sheep will run in their operative and tactical business. You pick a zone as team, isolate a sheep in a relatively wide area and don't let the zoned sheep out (not saying you don't let others inside), you keep track on their possibilities to escape and be there before the sheep even reach the chance. The noose will tighten for atleast one sheep and you will then earn credit for your work. Your job is to successfully zone the sheep and to sucessfully keep the farms in that zone disjoint from the rest. Your skills contain analysing where the sheep will try to move and not let them move back or for, not letting a sheep get around you and probably most important: not only predicting what sheep will do next, but also predicting what the other cutters are doing next!

Camper - Campers always have been considered lame ever since, but in these days of sheep tag the camper can help the team more than the unschooled eye can see. In addition to that the camper has to have great skill of prediction, team-communication and mapawareness. The camper can leave his position as far as the farest sheep from middle + the distance from 1/2 corner of the pen to the other corner of the pen, given that there are wards to all directions for the total distance estimated before. That distance often is very big, you can cut off the platform or half the way to the shop and a big area around middle which will make zoning for your team a lot easier. Most real sheep legends are insanely good in saving their allies, therefor you have to be insanely good at not letting them, or atleast ripping them, when they succeed. You have to come up with tactics to protect one wisp from getting saved by more than one sheep without having any gold. It's up to you to tell your team to help you early enough (that means before the sheep pressure you or to get enough gold for an iron golem. Assuming you get a golem you have to control more than one unit and you still should attack farms and help your team with atleast one of your units unless the sheep try to double-save.

Striker - As striker you are the one going for cheesy kills. This includes golem-jumps, mirror-jumps, strength-hits, gloves, strenght-beams and invis-snipes. You have to have great prediction of where the sheep will go next in the very moment. That's why your kills often are called "luck". However, all your actions cost gold and are afflicted with relative risk. You will only be accepted if you succeed with your actions, if you fail too often you probably make your team lose a lot of time. These days you can still help your team, because you create a passive threat sheep have to be concerned about. Being in the need to care for golems to pop up, invis appearing in front of them or a strength-pot cutting off a row of two farms faster than expected slows sheep down. This saves some of the time you cost your team by not sharing gold and not helping to isolate sheep actively, plus your risk of not killing someone can also be seen as a chance of killing someone.


I hope you like the roles and post some ratings for more players here! Smile
I'll update the page https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApNf-A89XgRVdEhQWTd4YVlCMzV0RDRVZ3BEcnVJNGc#gid=0
and post a picture of the rating here!

Greets - e8alkes!
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e8lakes

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Sun Feb 12, 2012 11:15 am

Okay! Some ratings have been updated:

Night, Polar, Sidey, Baiten, Pab!

Also check out the old ones:

Chaise, Trollpro, Exalius, Lakez!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApNf-A89XgRVdEhQWTd4YVlCMzV0RDRVZ3BEcnVJNGc#gid=0

Don't forget to request ability to edit or simply download this as Excel or other file (you don't need rights to do this) and send it to me so I can add it!

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Night



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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:57 am

There are some disagreements with this. I checked almost everyone and the players that dont fit ranks are ( this my pure opinion , dont listen to it if u dont want to):
1. trollpro is HUGELY overrated. HE IS not even good at heattaking , he just uses fancy runtag to impress noobs , but thats it. Also he is a bad striker which will only get kills against randoms or ppl with no skill.
2.With my ranks-> the disagreements are with the one hitter and heattaker thing. I am ONE of the best one-hitters there is in this community atm. in real games i mostly get one hit in my team , with some exceptions.
I am one of the best runtaggers and heattakers there is . The point is i need to RARELY act in that rhole since some players like chaise and traxx love this role much more. Its pure strategy and game-understanding from my point of view.
3. What in de fucking world is SIDEY ranks? HE IS NOWHERE near any of those ranks , except maybe for expander. PLease fix this , it is COMPLETELY insane to rank him that.


I'll update later with more analysis. KEEP up the good work lakes Smile. king
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Map

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:14 am

I wasn't here when he made trollpro's ranking. :/

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e8lakes

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:17 am

Updated point 1 and 3 Smile unsure about point 2 yet silent
do you have 1-hitter-theory? post it on the behh forums and I will update my ranking.
ofc anyone else can still rank you! Wink
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BaiteN92



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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:20 am

I agree this except for exodus, he might be tier 1000 s0z.
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RICHARD--

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Sun Apr 08, 2012 11:10 pm

hmm still cant get this :/ this wont make stc grow and thats the problem . we have maybe 1 big game at one night D:
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Map

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PostSubject: Re: Rating System 3D   Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:27 pm

But it was nice to do and you could take work in it to.
Theres no sense. Just nice to watch.
Yee, ST activity became less in the last months, ive already heard. :s

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